Comments on: Rob Bell: Salvation is Holistic

By: Coveredindust

Coveredindust — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:02:57 +0000

Inquiring Mind, it has been a while since you posted and I hope you are still around. The Dust video is one of the best descriptions of discipleship I have ever seen. I have used that DVD often in teaching on what it truly means to be in the process of being saved (I Cor 1:18). Compare this to RVL’s explanation of being a disciple (www.ttwmk.com). The previous comments have been based on the subject of “holistic salvation”. I am a well educated, conservative, Southern Baptist, who has had a passion for scriptures for over 30 years, and for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone who claims to be a Christian could believe anything different. We are called to be like Christ – literally. One cannot separate faith from works, an age old argument. One also cannot biblically deny the fact that the Kingdom has come with power (Mark 9:1) or that we are called to be perfect as God in heaven is perfect – right now (Matt 5:48). Jesus calls us to be like him and the Dust DVD does a wonderful job of expressing it. One last comment on another criticism of Rob Bell concerning the sufficiency of the scriptures. I believe in that with all my heart but … what bible was in use as Jesus was ministering to the people? The Septuagint. What is the most accurate version of the OT? The Tanahk. Has there been an agenda in the translations of our modern bibles (including the KJV & all its revisions). Ignorance is not bliss. As John repeated over and over as he was carried into the congregation after returning from Patmos – Love wins!!

By: Inquiring Mind

Inquiring Mind — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 02:25:34 +0000

I was wondering if someone could help me. I am new to the nooma videos and have found them to be great productions which are connecting with younger people. His messages are quite inspiring and and the composition of theme, images, story, and principles are exceptional.
However, I watched the Dust video. It seemed that he was proposing that one of the issues in our healing was faith in ourselves. This does not seem biblical. Can someone help me understand what Bell is proposing here?

With great expectation and gratitude.

By: thirtythousandpeople

thirtythousandpeople — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:53:36 +0000

Jessica, I also believe it’s true. Unfortunately there are some (see some of the above comments) who don’t want it to be true.

By: Jessica

Jessica — Mon, 05 May 2008 16:34:24 +0000

He isn’t really saying anything new here. What he’s talking about is sanctification. Jesus saves us from an eternity separated from Him and He also saves us in this life now–I agree it’s good news, but it’s already part of Christianity–it is a fundamental truth. I’m happy for Bell that he’s had this epiphany, but what he’s talking about has been around forever. There nothing new under the sun.

By: Richard

Richard — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 20:12:14 +0000

Quote … there is no such thing as HOLISTIC salvation … unquote

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” – 2 Corinthians 5:17, NKJV

“all things have become new” sounds pretty all-encompassing (holistic) to me. But what do we call that process that leads to all things becoming new? Salvation? Redemption? Regeneration? Sanctification? And who does this process apply to? Anyone who believes? Only a defined group called the Elect?

I think many disagreements which are supposedly about theology are instead basic and unrecognized differences in word definitions.

Some things in life and everlasting life are more important than others in terms of their everlasting effect. So – in the interest of putting things in perspective and setting priorities – consider that I will be rejected by God forever (the Second Death) if He finds that my name is not written down in the Book of Life at the Judgement Day. My number-one concern, then, must be – what do I do to make certain my name is written in the Book of Life on Judgement Day. My second, and lesser concern, is what is required of me after I have done whatever is necessary to guarantee that my name is written in the Book of Life onJudgement Day. There are a disconcertingly large number of answers to these two questions floating around, and many of them flat out contradict each other. There are also several different words used to define the process. implied in each of the two questions. How can you be sure you are debating / disagreeing over theology if you have not first determined whether you and your debate partner agree on basic word definitions?

For those who are interested in seeing multiple definitions for the same word, these two links are a good place to start reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctification

By: Don Elser

Don Elser — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:44:22 +0000

This man being Rob Bell? I’m not seeing it, Kim. I’ve read the Bible many times and grew up in very conservative churches–and attended a conservative seminary. I’m also a pastor of a theologically conservative church. Sometimes the things that Rob says throw me at first, but I haven’t discovered any heresy in what he has to say ( I’ve taken our college group through his NOOMA series and found it a great tool for discussing life and God) On the contrary, I feel that he may be uncovering some heresy that is part of the evangelical church right now. When I read about Jesus and where His heart was at as He taught…I don’t see Rob Bell being off. I encourage you to be very careful about words like “heretic”. I hope that you will extend the grace to Rob that you would like to have extended to you in your musings or beliefs. If history is any example ALL of us have a bit of heresy.
Rather than burn Rob at the stake…let’s do what you said and read the Scriptures, like the Bereans did. I hope you’re as open to new ideas as they were! Let’s be open to the possiblity that Rob is God’s prophet for this time– and really pray/search/study and see what God shows us!

By: thirtythousandpeople

thirtythousandpeople — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:46:02 +0000

Kim, I would delete your comment but I think it’s good for everyone to see. Thanks.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:01:09 +0000

This man along with Brian MacLaren are HERETICS and FALSE TEACHERS of the gospel!! People – read your WORD!!! God’s word is intended for us to understand what he’s talking about and there is no such thing as HOLISTIC salvation!!!!!!!

By: Matt Scott

Matt Scott — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:42:23 +0000

@Scott
One of the largest issues we have to look at is the fact that many in the Church are comfortable with the status quo. They believe that we can continue to “grow in Christ” through our theology, or (somewhat disingenuous) study of the Bible. It’s much easier to hear a set of defined rules and principles than a life changing revelation.

Part of the fear of the Emergent church is that it is different. We (Emergents, Mosaics, and other such conversant groups) are trying to move the church towards a heritage of Missiology rather than trying to convert everyone to our belief system. We view our mission in life as brining the Kingdom into the world, not waiting for our arrival at the Kingdom.

From our perspective Christ spent his time bringing the Kingdom, sharing the Kingdom, and helping others gain understanding of the Kingdom. He didn’t try to convert anyone to a religion, but instead he brought them to a better understanding of life. A faith group based upon sharing their goods and attempting to show a life which lends strength to withhold against the oppressive Empirical system that the early Church was attacked by. That was the tradition of the Church for roughly 300 years, until Constantine brought the Empire to Christianity. That is where our understanding of “holistic” salvation was lost.

By: Scottontherock

Scottontherock — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:15:13 +0000

Hmmm….
Well I’ve been wrestling with the whole Rob Bell thing. And I don’t see anything wrong with his teaching.
I think that salvation and works come hand in hand. Of course the we can’t buy our salvation with works. But when we are “saved”, when we receive salvation the works is just an outward display of our salvation.
I fear that maybe people are getting angry at the so called “emergent” movement because it is stepping on the toes of comfort. Jesus called people to something better, I believe he called us to follow him, to follow His teachings, to become like Himself. Of course we can never reach the perfection of Jesus, but our life is supposed to be built on trying.
We need God to change us from our old sinful self into what He wants us to be. We need Him to give us His nature. A nature that met needs, that offers people a better chance.

I guess my fear is with the tradition church (not to come down on them because without them I would not be who I am today) but it seems to me that the church concept of the past has been “make them feel so guilty about their sin that they get saved. Then we’ll spend the rest of our lives arguing about theology”…the problem is when we spend time arguing about theology we get nothing done…and I wonder who wouldn’t want us to get anything done…Satan perhaps. The traditional church spends it’s time arguing while the world goes to hell.

Works are a sign of our salvation. When we are truly saved and seek God, he changes us into who He is. And part of who He is is Jesus. So shouldn’t our lives start to reflect that as we grow? The church needs a refit. One that is based around the love that God has for us.

I guess as i’ve written this it seems a little obscure to me how all this fits in. In the end I believe the church needs something different and I see Rob Bell and other new-thinkers trying to do that based on the Bible.