The following is an excerpt (full mp3 here) from a panel conversation (With Justin Taylor interviewing Tim Keller, John Piper, and Mark Driscoll) at the Desiring God Conference 2006, which took place on September 29. John Piper was asked about the Emergent Church, and after shocking the audience by saying a curse word (Justin said Mark must be rubbing off on him), he said this about a lunch conversation that he had with Tony Jones, national coordinator of Emergent Village:
I just kinda kept going back on my heels, like, I don’t understand the way these guys think, and so there are profound epistemological differences – ways of processing reality – that make the conversation almost impossible; just kind of going by each other. My question sort of is, how profitable would it be to press on with that when your worldviews seem to be so different and your ways of knowing seem to be different, the function of knowledge in transformation, what the goals of transformation are – all those are so different that I’m not sure we would get anywhere.
These words by Dr. Piper caused me to wonder if this is the reason why some leaders are not in the habit of dialoguing with a lot of their critics, because how profitable would it be when your worldviews are so different? I for one don’t think that Brother John should spend a lot of his energy in dialogue with people who come from a totally different angle (although some is healthy), because it takes him away from focusing his attention on the things that he really feels passionate about. It reminds me of Nehemiah 6:3 – “I am carrying on a great project and cannot go down. Why should the work stop while I leave it and go down to you?”
Pastor Piper is doing a great work. I hope that he’s open to correction, yet always working hard at the work he’s been given.
Filed under: Christianity, Desiring God, Emergent, Emergent Church, Emerging Church, John Piper, Justin Taylor, Mark Driscoll, Quotes, Tim Keller, Tony Jones
As I understood the conversation, the curse word for actually more slang or profanity and John was quoting another person. Imo.
I just thought it was funny that John Piper cursed at his Desiring God Conference.
i think that its funny that we even care about piper “cursing”. what constitutes “cursing”? shit? f-k? G-d? there are so many different kinds of cursing. how many of yall say “crap”? if you are a normal christian, probably most of yall. crap is no different than shit. other than the social taboo against shit. personally, i dont use the word shit in conversation for that reason, but i dont believe there is anything inherently wrong with the word.
however, the f word is different because the very word itself has a vulgar meaning and paul tells us to not even mention sexual immorality among yourselves.
as far as using the LORD’s name in vain, this is wrong, period. no other two ways about it. but i bet this is the one most used by “christians”. how many christians do you know that say “God” when they make a mistake or are surprised or whatever? not to mention how many christians do you know who use God’s name in vain in a different way. how many people do you know that use His name like a goodluck charm? “oh, i got the closest parking spot at church because i prayed to God and He gave it to me”. sure God could do this. but does that mean He did? maybe He gave you the farthest spot to help you learn patience, etc.
personally, i think its sad that there needs to be so much said about the curse word that piper said rather than what his message was.
as far as his message, about the emergent church and those who’s worldview is so radically different. i agree. i have often discussed things on my blog or others blog for a couple comments, but when i see that they are completely not understanding because they have such a different view of the world, then i dont try to convince but rather just thank them for the good discussion.
for instance, if yall disagree with me about the cursing thing, i may try to rebut, but most likely i will just let it go, because its not that important anyway. more importantly we as brothers and sisters are to “by this all men will know you are my disciples if you love one another”.
may the love of Christ be with you all
peter
PB and J, I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with curse words, either, including the f word. Like I said, I thought it was funny.
Regarding using the Lord’s name in vain, I think we’ve taken the easy way out. I don’t think it necessarily means saying “God” or “Jesus” when we’re upset. In Biblical culture a name was much more than a name; it represented the person’s character. So to take God’s name in vain is to misrepresent his character. We shall not misrepresent God to the world, which of course raises all sorts of questions about what exactly constitutes a misrepresentation, but I’m willing to bet that most believers innately know a good chunk of what that means.
I believe Rob Bell said something like that about taking the LORD’s name in vain. I thought it was an interesting perspective when I heard it.